Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkaa
I think neither paladins nor sks fill that role of the "dps" and "manipulating opponents".
When I used to parse Grimar, Cvetkaa and Sauga, the dps difference wasn't big, or at least I expected it because Cvetkaa always uses all possible lifetap proc buffs (~16 dps difference for shroud of the leech vs paladin with rbow, and she always uses Melwin's idol, while Grim and Sauga didn't).
My new parses showed paladin constant ~10 dps over sk, but on all fights combined here is the result (total time 47 minutes):
Paladin crit 22.5% of the time, was 216 melee dps and 8 proc dps with Antediluvian Axe and Rbow, so 224 dps combined.
Sk crit 15.6% of the time, was 195 melee dps and 21 dps from deflux, spear of agony, again using Antediluvian Axe but with the self-buff shroud of the leech, so 216 dps combined.
The knights in question had identical gear except the bp (seething hatred vs devout crusader's), same attack and same buffs except paladin was using rbow and sk shroud of the leech, both 2% deity bonus, no tomes, same race.
If paladins are to resemble monks/rangers in form of their dps, I'd expect their melee dps to be slightly buffed. Would they actually have spell slots for other damage spells? I know I'm short on them with Cvetkaa, using deflux and spear when it pops, but no dots.
As said before, paladins don't seem so much better dps to deserve the title of best dps of the tanks - but then again what's up with sk "careful manipulation of mobs"?
I always wondered why sks don't get any dps stance at all, outside of /s 2, because I thought that paladin offensive stances were a tiny bit better than they are, but after I played one a couple of times, I'm not too impressed with them either.
I'm only stating this because I think it's vital to consider all aspects when you talk about "paladins are dps tanks, sks are utility tanks". If paladin dps was to be buffed, then I hope the utility of sk "manipulative" spells will also be revised.
If 10 dps difference is worth of calling paladins the best dps of tank classes, then fine, but if it was to be buffed, I'd support something done with yaulp or some stances revised (for both knights).
Some people already made posts while I was writing mine, but I basically agree with Behn.
EDIT: I just figured out the mob I parsed on was neutral humanoid, so the paladin and sk aas took effect - paladin did 10% more dps as if the npc was good and sk did 15% more dps as if the npc wasn't humanoid - so if the mob was non-humanoid good the paladin dps would be even better.
Players who play in first person view, with Luclin graphics and use arrow keys to move should NOT be allowed to comment on class balances.
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I say this not because playing in first person view is "wrong", but because not knowing how to play in 3rd person is. I also say this not because playing with Luclin graphics is "wrong", but because not playing with old graphics means that your first EQ experience was probably in SOD. And finally, moving exclusively with your arrow keys IS wrong, because it does not allow your character the proper utility that turning with a mouse does.
Having this in mind i will state the following:
Any and ALL parses, comparisons and analysis done by you regarding SKs and paladins (and EQ) are worthless.
I've always wanted to play Cvetkaa just to prove how much more USEFUL she COULD be and how much more DPS she could do than Sauga, but was never able to complete this endeavour. But i do guarantee you that had i have been able to, you'd have been thinking to yourself, "ZOMG Yuo aer haxx0ring on teh my SK!!1", while Niko would be shouting in the background, "WOLDAFF NINJAR BUFFD SKS TO MAEK HATE OF US#$)(*@#)$(*@#!!!"
(Here is the key point to understanding yourself)
You speak about your own SK experience from a jaded and biased perspective. Exodus has some of the best monks in SOD... 2-3 at that! You, as an SK, were always pointless and expendible in that guild. You would sit there on raids off-tanking the occasional mob you could pull off me (and probably Balthor before), while Grimar and the monks did all the work and had all the "fun". Why was Cvetkaa even there?
IMAGINE the possible utility your class could have... Imagine your class in the hands of a good player and in the proper setting...
Now to some numbers:
The fact that Sauga did more DPS, at any point in your "parses", than Cvetkaa is likely because you were casting some random spell and not doing the right things.
Remember how Uzzdaar had NEVER BOUGHT Blinding Light and kept Champion of Althuna and Valor of Enthann memmed at all times on his spell bar? That is the definition of a horrible player. I have no doubts that you are in his league.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stope21
(Parser image of Jenks raping Ringo in DPS)
Here is some evidence. Here are some SOLID numbers of a WORSE geared SK beating a BETTER geared paladin in DPS.
In your attempts to sound intelligent and credible you are trying to prove how a WORSE geared paladin did more DPS than a BETTER geared SK. It does NOT compute. Cvetkaa had 20%+ tomes, Sauga only had 5%. Cvetkaa has higher item crit than Sauga. She has higher ATK. She is a SUPERIORLY geared toon and should have in no way been out DPS'ed by Sauga.
Do you understand what i'm saying here?
Lastly, did you delete Cvetkaa because you were frustrated at how horrible at that class you are or some other reason?
I ask you now: Please stop trying to spew illigitimate and incorrect information in this thread - for the sake of the community.
The only argument SKs have ever had versus paladins was /s 4. I agreed that it should be nerfed. It got nerfed. Game over.
Before you get all defensive, keep this in mind: I may be an asshole, but you and Niko, out of all people, do know how credible and good of a player i am.
One last thing, something that no one has mentioned in this thread are SK pets. Yes, they are fairly useless in a raid setting, but they do count for SOME dps. Parse it. Address it. If not, give paladins identical pets.
March 13th 2009, 7:19 pm
<--- sauga irl